There is nothing like Home

The power of home is often overlooked. Home is where we learn about our identity. One of the reasons Odysseus turns down being a god is because he wants to return to his homeland. Odysseus even says that there is sweeter than country and parents even if its not as fertile as foreign lands. We can all identify with the power of home because we might be successful economically and socially but we can never forget where we came from or who we owe who we are to.

Defiance and Justification

Today in class we spoke briefly about one idea that stuck out to me from the reading. At one point during Odysseus’s travels, his men were starving after being without food for awhile. Eventually, they came upon some cattle which Odysseus had been warned not to kill, but the group decided that dying from hunger was way worse than whatever their punishment could and would be. After deciding that they were going to go against the gods wishes, the men came up with an idea to right their wrong. They decided to sacrifice some of the meat to the gods to justify their actions.

This part of the story immediately made me think about my life. I can’t speak for anyone else, but I definitely do things just like this in my everyday life. Ok, maybe I don’t go around killing animals to sacrifice to the God I believe in, but I do try to strike up tons of other deals so I can pretend like my defiance was ok. 

P.S. I posted to Cameron White's Achilles and His Boy...

Achilles' and His Boy

                                        What an awesome scene it was in book eleven when Oddyseus meets Achilles in the Kingdom of the Dead. Oddyseus is suprised to find that Achilles is not so happy about his status as a dead man. He says he would rather " slave on earth for another man than rule down here over all the breathless dead."

 

It goes without say that Achilles probably missed the life as a warrior. Something else he missed was his son. The pride that Achilles has for his son and of the knowledge that this son is walking in the same footprints of his own are all Achilles needs to hear from Oddyseus to be able to walk back to the kingdom with a swift foot. This passage shows how the men in the military culture of Homer's lived; the men are flawed, have emotion, show pride in lineage and family, and hold respect to other men. I believe this case can help break the stigma of what our culture would describe as a "manly man" (Soutout to Mallory!!!)

Kleos, the ultimate end?

I was very shocked that Achilles (well, his spirit) said he would take back his decision in Troy to stay and fight rather than return to a less glorious life as a farmer. Is this the same hero who spent his life chasing kleos no matter the risk? But where did this chase get him? Eternity in the underworld along with everyone who chose to live their life for something besides glory. Every nobody, peasant, and king all received the same fate. Sure the souls of Petroklus, Antilochus, and Aias are with him, but they no longer have anything to fight for. Their life's greatest achievement is behind them and they have no new goal to chase in the underworld. They have lost their purpose and the essence of their existence. Glory and honor achieved, what do they have left? Achilles says that even to rule over his lifeless companions in the underworld won't bring him any more satisfaction than an average life as an average human on earth, no longer "god-like Achilles". Odysseus disagrees saying, "No man before has been more blessed than you, nor ever will be." He still sees kleos as the ultimate end. Once a man has honor and glory, what more can he want? But what happens when kleos isn't enough? What comes next? For Achilles, the only left is despair, regret, and the hope that his son will make him proud. Is this what Odysseus has waiting for him at the end of his adventurous life?

There's Something About Odysseus

I want to start by saying how awesome I think Odysseus is. Yes, he’s reckless and has a tendency to be quite devious but there’s something more genuine about him that I don’t get from some other heroes (and by other heroes I clearly mean Achilles). He openly admits that he makes mistakes and that’s refreshing from an epic hero. His cleverness is what makes him so intriguing to me, I like that you never really know what is true with him. It makes him so interesting. If my epic hero is going to have a flaw I’d much prefer him to be crafty to a fault than have Achilles’ pride. I know that I gave Achilles a hard time about letting men die and Odysseus in similar to him in that but it’s his recklessness that causes death not his pride but I don’t look at Odysseus as being prideful or even fully to blame. Maybe I seem like I’m reaching on this justification but I feel like the men who followed Odysseus had to know what they were getting into. This is Greek culture, a man’s reputation and glory is their life so they had to know what he was all about. I think that potentially his men were just as adventurous and curious as he was and maybe they even figured that if they were going to go down it might as well be on an epic adventure. It sounds strange to refer to the most cunning and conniving characters as being genuine but apparently he is a hero of many layers and does have a genuine quality about him. Athena’s interest in Achilles is also something that I noticed. He’s very similar to him in that she is very manipulative and has that cunning nature. I think she might see a little of herself in him and that’s where that draw to him is. What it comes down to for me is that there’s just something about Odysseus that makes me want to root for him. 

commented on Lauren Tidwell's

Are you a "manly man"?

Are you a “manly man”?

Today’s idea of a “manly man” is somewhat of an emotionless drone compared to Homer’s description of the very demonstrative epic man. The modern Western European influenced society pictures the ideal “manly man” as a man who does not ever show his emotions; whereas Homer depicts men that “the inward heart in them was broken” (Book 10, Line 196) when they discovered that they must first travel to Hades before completing their homecoming. The men of the Odyssey have been portrayed grieving their lost comrades and their homecomings and the lack thereof. Can you blame them? Are they truly any less of a man because they acted out their emotions? I say that a man that does not display is emotions, doesn’t truly understand the depth of his emotion. Take a child for example; when it is happy it smiles and giggles, when it is sad it cries, and when it is angry it throws a temper tantrum. Although the child is incapable of really thinking through why they feel a certain way, it knows that it is not in a neutral state, expresses that state, and then moves on. Is it even possible for someone to “move on” from an emotional high or low without expressing it? So come on men!...Cry a little!

p.s- I commented on Emily La Force “Can You Say Controlling?”

The Epicness of Epics

Throughout our reading of the Odyssey and even in the Iliad we have mentioned many times in class how parts of the epic poems are similar to other stories, myths, and even some religious beliefs, whether Christian or not.  It really got me thinking today about how much the novels have affected our literature today.  For example, our ghost stories today are mainly centered around souls having unfinished business on earth, normally associated with their death.  Well, down in Hades, almost all those spirits talk about is how they died.  If Agamemnon could haunt anyone, he would most certainly be spooking his wife for the rest of her life, and it would take for a wonderful ghost story.  When talking in class today, we mentioned that the Laistrygones and their civilization (or in some ways lack of one) is similar to the story of the giants in C. S. Lewis' The Silver Chair.  In religion today people still believe in multiple gods that are each in charge on one thing, such as the sea, the sun, the moon, the wind, and so on.  Also, in Plato's dialogues the gods and parables involving the gods are mentioned very frequently.  The people in Greece (if I am correct) saw the epic poems as stories of actual events, just like we Christians today view the Bible.  This makes me wonder, if the stories were viewed so highly, and if these gods were such a large part of the people's religion, AND if Greece was such a large nation, how did their religion just die out?  Is that something that could just happen with Christianity, or Judaism, or any other religion?  These stories have impacted our ways of thought, even into the twenty first century, but as far as religion goes, they really don't seem to have made much of an affect.  I guess this is just some food for thought.  I really just wanted to marvel in how awesome these epics are, and how much they have impacted literature today!

-Susan Berner

P.S. I commented on Becca's post, "Death and Odysseus"

No thanks, Odysseus.

As we have mentioned before in honors, Odysseus is probably not the most favorable man to travel with in terms of long life expectancy. Any man that travels with him is most likely doomed to die some horrific death, and Odysseus usually knows about the danger ahead, or brings on the danger by his recklessness. One example that I have had a dilemma over is Odysseus' decision to go Scylla's way to get past the mountain. He knows beforehand that to go past Scylla means he will lose six men. The other choice is to go by way of Charybdis which means that instead of losing six men, every one will die. Odysseus knows and weighs both options, but he does not tell his crew about the impending danger for fear of mass chaos on the boat. But how can one choose which six will die and who will be left? All Odysseus knows is that he will survive no matter what the circumstance. So is it fair to say that he does not care who lives or dies? I think that Odysseus cares for his men, but I also think he has one goal in mind and that goal is to return to his homeland and his family. Once Odysseus decides to do or act on something no one can stop him no matter what the cost. So if Odysseus ever asked me to go on a journey with him, I would most definitely think twice about saying yes.

P.S.- I commented on Gary Hamner's post.

Ethos

Today in class we talked about how Odysseus' skill as as a storyteller allowed the Phaiakians to believe his story, however unbelievable it seemed. Alkinoos said of Odysseus "You have a grace upon your words, and there is sound sense in them." What Schuler said in class with our group was basically about how this was a testament of how powerful ethos can be as a form of rhetoric. Odysseus, won over the entire crowd at the feast by essentially convincing them of the legitimacy of his story by the way he told it. He shed real tears at the loss of his men and the trials they have been through. Because of the fact that he established with them that he truly cared for his men and truly desired to reach home, no one in that palace doubted any part of his story.To me this is just impressive. Odysseus's story is far fetched to say the least, but purely through textbook ethos, he wins over the crowd.

P.S. I commented on Becca's

Man of Iron

Odysseus had been ready to pass by the island of Helios, but Eurylochos, no longer trusting the man, argued against the decision. He said, "You are a hard man, Odysseus. Your force is greater, your limbs never wear out. You must be made all of iron, when you will not let your companions, worn with hard work and wanting sleep, set foot on this land, where if we did, on the seagirt island we could once more make ready a greedy dinner..."

He accused Odysseus of being made of iron. In this case, iron doesn't hold the positive meaning used to describe Priam of Troy. This man of iron had no compassion for his weaker companions. Was this true? No - Odysseus was truly concerned about the men. He had tried to avoid danger. When they were confined to the island, he still kept reminding them to stay out of trouble. But Eurylochos' hunger pains soon outweighed any remaining trust he had in Odysseus. His rebellion brought death to all the men, leaving Odysseus mourning for them. Would a man of iron weep for his friends?

I certainly don't think we could accuse Eurylochos of having any iron will. He reminds me of Esau - that birthright seemed good until his stomach started grumbling. Eurylochos worried more about his hunger than the command of the gods. Really, Eurylochos isn't better than Odysseus. He should have focused on his own fears and priorities before attacking Odysseus.

P.S. I commented on jasmne's post.

The Underworld or There and Back Again... Not a Hobbit's Tale

Today in class, Dr. Schuler joked that he was going to take us to hell and back during our discussion. We all laughed at this, but the real question I have is, is Hades really Hell? I don’t think so. Hell, according to the Bible, is where all men who have not accepted Christ’s gift of Salvation are sent after their deaths. Conversely, Hades is the afterlife. There is no distinction for those that are sent there. Those sent to Hades are both good and bad. Only those souls that have does great acts of good or great acts of evil are distinguished from the other souls.

So, while we were taken to the Underworld and back again we were not necessarily taken to Hell and back again. In Hades, the souls are not tortured they just wander around without knowledge of themselves until a sacrifice of blood is offered. In Hell however, souls are tortured for eternity and there is no hope for them at all.

So our journey today did take us ‘there and back again’ but not exactly in the way Dr. Schuler was thinking.

Tantum e tenebris receptum constabit

~Meghan

PS I commented on Becca’s post “Death and Odysseus”

Freedom VS Comfort

     In book 5 Odysseus is trapped on Kalypso's island and at the end of the book he is finally about to leave, but Kalypso gives one last effort to try and keep Odysseus on the island. Kalypso says to Odysseus, " Son of Laertes and seed of Zeus, resourceful Odysseus, are you still so eager to go on back to your own house and the land of your fathers? I wish you well, however you do it, but if you only knew in your heart how many hardships you were fated to undergo before getting back to your country, you would stay here with me and be the lord of this household and be an immortal,..." So basically Kalypso tells Odysseus that he can either be free and go home or he can choose to stay on the island with her and be an immortal, in the end Odysseus chooses to leave, he chooses to be free and go home.     In my opinion Odysseus chose the right course of action, he ultimately had to choose to either endure hardship and be free or to stay on the island in comfort. I believe we all to often give up our freedom little by little just to make ourselves comfortable. For example, when we as states delegate our rights to the federal government, whatever rights those may be,  we give our freedom to make decisions away, and we make ourselves comfortable by not having to make hard decisions. Sometimes we as individuals need to man up and make the hard decisions even if that means we have to endure hardship.

Death and Odysseus

Death and Odysseus

Though Odysseus is fated to make it safely home to Ithaca, his men sadly do not share the same destiny. This is shown through their trials as they trek from Troy to their homeland. Each island on which they land holds new adventures and dangers for Odysseus and his company.

Odysseus shows concern for his men most explicitly in book 10 after the death of Elpenor on Circe’s island, Aeaea. “But not even there could I get them safely off without a loss…” Though Elpenor was not the oldest, bravest, or smartest of the bunch, he was one of Odysseus’ men who shared in their victory at Troy. Odysseus isn’t shallow in the same vein as Agamemnon is who would exploit every man and opportunity he had to win and achieve his goals. Odysseus from this point on shows explicated care and concern for his dwindling comrades. Odysseus journey was more than selfish it was concentrated and shared by all who were with him, the return home.  

(P.S. I commented on Brian Burkhardt’s “Stuck Between a Rock and a Vicious Six-headed Monster”)

What a Player!

Why does Odysseus always have to sleep with every goddess he runs into? I mean Penolope is probably one of the most faithful women in Homer's time. He keeps complianing about wanting to go home, yet he just sits in the bed and does nothing about it! I feel like if he just stayed on course and didn't screw around so much then he could get to Ithaca alot faster. I know men are like expected to be unfaithful when they were on voyages, but I mean come on, have a little respect. He knows where these goddesses live so why even stop there? Crazy! I mean I don't totally hate Odysseus, but he can really be a player sometimes! He does have good qua;ities but he should just be more faithful sometimes!


P.S. I commented on Rebekah Dyes "to be immortal..or not to be? "

Odysseus, Why?

May I just start off by saying I have really enjoyed reading this book? Good.

     So I have constantly found myself saying, "Odysseus, Why?" Why does Odysseus do the things he does?  For honor, family, exploration, curiosity, wanting to know the unknown?  In my opinion Odysseus is a man who craves knowledge, which is one reason Athena is his patron goddess.  Yet, through this exploration for knowledge comes at a high price.  

    Some examples of this is his deadly encounter with the Cyclops and the Sirens. One thing I kept asking when reading about his gruesome captivity by the Cyclops, was "Why would you even stay there?" Maybe it was because he expected to be treated well, but I feel that it was because he wanted to be able to say "I know what  and who the Cyclops is, I have been to where he dwells".  Also I want to ask, "Why did he have to hear the Siren's song?"  Couldn't he have just plugged his own ears? Why did he need to listen, he wanted to be able to say "I have heard what the Sirens song is, I know what they sound like, I survived".  Maybe the truth of matter, his quest for knowledge, is really a quest for bragging rights! 

 All I can say, is that I have learned from this book that sometime curiosity kills the crewman. Also on a side not I have learned not to take such huge risks, sometimes being cautious is the way to survive. 

P.S. commented on Danielle's post

Stuck Between a Rock and a Vicious Six-Headed Monster.

            Time and time again throughout the Odyssey,hazard upon hazard fall upon poor Odysseus. In this instance,he must sail through a narrow channel with a maelstrom on one side,and a six-headed monster on the other. The question is,what would you choose? Would you face the monster and hope for the best? Or would you try to scramble past the maelstrom when you could? This is the way I though of it. A man against a monster,or a man against a force of nature. Great set of choices eh? Personally I would pick the monster. Why? Well I,as a mere human being,would rather pit myself against something that I would have a chance of killing or at least hindering,rather than pit myself against a force no man can control. Have we seen an instance of man trying to fight against nature? Ah yes! How could I forget? The great hero Achilles! The best warrior among all mortal men! Yet,he was almost killed by a river! Only because of the god's intervention was Achilles able to escape it. If not for them,he would have perished there. But in the past,Odysseus had already slain several monsters! Including a giant cyclops! I think this is what would help weigh my decision. If I had already killed some gruesome creatures,and the god of the sea and storms AT sea had a grudge against me,I would rather fight the monster. Not that Odysseus has much of a choice,but he still puts on his armor,grabs his sword and javelins,and is ready to face the beast. Although! We must keep in mind that he does not tell his men of Scylla the monster! He fears that they would drop their oars and be paralyzed with fear. This hints that just the mere mention of this beast was enough to paralyze a full grown man.  A lot of times in life,we are faced with very tough decisions,but in the end we must make a choice.

So I ask you again,which would you choose,and why?

(P.S. I commented on Skylar Michelle's 'Irony of Hades')

"If it wasn't this, it'd be something else."

In The Iliad Achilles is faced with a great decision: live a short and glorious life and be remembered forever, or return home as a simple farmer and die of old age. Truly, this is no fair question--for once a question like this is posed it can never be forgotten. Either option will ultimately end in the unanswerable question 'what if...' One sees through Homer's writing this emphasis on fate; it is a force within itself that cannot be stopped, even by the gods. Perhaps this was a common view in the day. Maybe it was simply Homer's view. Regardless, it is interesting to remember that knowing one's fate or even being able to choose one's fate is the source of much turmoil. Once Achilles is given the opportunity to decide the outcome of his life, the reader knows that he will never be happy. Though his fame is apparent throughout the world of The Odyssey, he is miserable in the underworld. Perhaps this view could give Odysseus some comfort in his own outcome, for though his fate has been a rough course, it is a force unstoppable. He had no other options. There is a sort of solace in not having responsibility. Odysseus is free to make the most out of what he has been dealt and will never have to wonder after another theoretical life, as Achilles will do forever in Hades. If Odysseus didn't have the same horrible fate, he wouldn't be the same hero.

Irony of Hades

All of Odysseus' stories are fairly repetitive.  He shows up on an island, he goes looking for civilization, and  someone gets killed, drugged, poisoned,etc.  The only person that seems to escape is always Odysseus.  However, where is the one place that no one ends up in danger or comes close to dying? The house of Hades!

When traveling to the land of the dead and back not a single person on the ship is killed.  Well, you can point out the obvious that Hades' is full of ghosts or "flittering shadows." How can they kill Odysseus or any of his companions? Also, Odysseus was there just to talk to Teiresias, even though he did get an ear-full from numerous of the ghosts including his mother, Agamemnon, and even Achilles.  Who would dare try and be reckless in the land of the dead?  Definitely not Odysseus.  I just find this situation so ironic that the one place full of death, where there is no civilization, and the one place Odysseus seemed to fear the most (considering he started weeping as soon as Circe told him that is where he had to go) is the one place that no one was killed. Maybe if Odysseus had a little more fear in him and questioned how he would actually be able to get places like he did when going to Hades' home he may have been able to save some of his companions. 

p.s. commented on TinsleyG's Odysseus the devious wretch...Just like the gods?... 

The curse of the gods

When Odysseus goes anywhere, it seems that bad luck (Eris?) follows him. Even before he was cursed by Polyphemous the cyclops, it seemed that trouble was his faithful companion. Like when he went to the land of the Lotus eaters. What are the odds that he would land on an island that once you eat the lotus the partaker will forget about the one thing that kept the men going, home! Also, everywhere he goes he is either reminded or witnesses firsthand the curse that follows him. He may be cunning and sometimes reckless, but who in their right mind wants to know that they have been cursed. I respect him for not sinking into depression, though it seems like sometimes he is very near the edge. The curse is always mentioned at the point when Oddyseus is emotionally weak such as: when thay see Ithaica and are swept back to the Aiolos' house, when they are in Hades seeing fallen loved ones and friends, and when Alkinoos sends him in a Phaiakian ship that turns to stone in the middle of the ocean and sinks to the depths. If any of us had that much resolve, where would the world be today?

fleeting glory

Can kleos die? This concept of glory/honor intrigues me. It was obviously such a large part of Greek culture… but did kleos die when a person did? Obviously they had stories that carried on their name, but the stories only captured a mere glimpse of that glory. It was in a person’s way of walking and how people responded to them and their strength in battle that were the indicators of kleos. People could make up stories, but everyone took notice when Achilles walked into the room. So what happened when he died? When Oysseus visits Achilles in Hades, Achilles makes the puzzling statement that “I would rather follow the plow as thrall to another man, one with no land allotted him and not much to live on, than be a king over all the perished dead” (Book 11, lines 490-1). This does not match up with the Achilles of The Iliad. He would never want to be subject or slave to another. But maybe Achilles realizes that death levels the playing field. Regardless of how much glory they had in life, once they were dead it no longer mattered. They are all stuck in Hades with no way out and no way to “gain glory.” There are no wars to fight or obstacles to overcome… there is simply… nothing. Perhaps being a farmer is better than Hades for Achilles because at least if he’s alive he has potential to become more and gain glory rather than the nothingness of death. All the glory he attained in his life does him no good in death because it brings him no power. Meanwhile, the only remnants of kleos he left in the land of the living are the songs and stories of his bravery …and his son. I think that is why it’s significant that Achilles so eagerly asked about his son- through the life of his son the name of Achilles would live on, as would the kleos. Odysseus told of the fame of Neoptolemos and Achilles left happy because his son had fame and favor. Even in the underworld this theme of glory is so important.

Do we see remnants of that in our own culture? Kleos and having glory in death… Legacy, maybe? Everyone wants to be remembered for something, but why is it so important if it’s something fleeting that will end when death comes? Maybe that’s why so many are searching for something meaningful to live and die for… and the answer is before us- Jesus. Only His glory lasts forever, so by contributing to that you are living and working for something that will never fade, falter, or die out. I wonder…is there another Greek word for kleos that is bigger than ourselves?

p.s. commented on Tinsley's "Odysseus the devious wretch...just like the gods?"

Odysseus the devious wretch... Just like the gods??

I love the moment where Athena reveals herself to Odysseus by saying,

 “It would be a sharp one, and a stealthy one, who would ever get past you in any conniving; even if it were a god against you.  You wretch, so devious, never weary of tricks, then you would not even in your own country give over your ways of deceiving and your thievish tales.  They are near to you in your very nature.  But come, let us talk no more of this, for you and I both know sharp practice, since you are far the best of all mortal men for counsels and stories, and I among all the divinities am famous for wit and sharpness…” 

The laughing way that she addresses him is not only funny, but thought provoking.  When Athena makes this comparison of herself and Odysseus, it shows us how similar they really both are.  After all, they were each trying to fool the other into believing they were not who they seemed, and it always is that way with Odysseus and Athena.  After all, they both love to be “Nobody.”  This passage really highlights the differences in the Iliad and the Odyssey, and what exactly makes up a hero who is pleasing to the gods.  There aren’t many people in the world more strikingly different than Achilleus and Odysseus, yet they are both considered great Greek heroes of great honor.  They both had such different paths to heroism, and I don’t particularly like either path.  After all, is it really any better to be known as a person so devious that you can’t trust anything they say, because they’re always working for their own advantage than to be known as a mighty, fearsome, unforgiving, anger-driven warrior?  Both of these concepts of heroism are interesting, as they are also reflections on the gods of Greece.  After all, both of these are great qualities to the gods.  Perhaps that’s why these men are considered heroes, they are as close to the vision of the Greek gods as they can get without attaining immortality. 

P.S. I commented on emilylaforce "Can you say controlling?"

To be immortal...or not to be?

We talked so much in class of Odysseus's decision to become immortal and stay with Kalypso or remain mortal, and begin to make the long journey home. I for one was extremely glad he choose going home. I think that tells a lot about his character! While reading 'The Iliad' and 'The Odyssey' it has been very interesting to me to see how much people valued glory, immortality, honor and power. It makes sense to some degree but thinking about all the other characters in these books, I think if it had been a different character, they may have chosen a life of ease, very quickly. It was refreshing to me to see Odysseus putting value on home and family. While I can see which choice would've been easiest, I'm glad Odysseus chose the harder route. What is easiest, isn't always good.

P.s. I commented on Michelle Nellsch's 'Man of Mystery'

Can you say controlling???

The relationship between Odysseus and Kalypso is a little weird to say the least.

At the beginning of book 5, we find Odysseus crying his eyes out on Kalypso's island and her just chilling out like nothing's wrong. What is the backstory behind this?

First off, Kalypso does a good deed and rescues Odysseus from drowning. However, she then makes Odysseus into her sex slave and doesn't let him go home. She keeps trying to prevent him from going home by offering to make him into a god so that he can be like her.

If you really loved someone, wouldn't you want to try to make them feel better? 

Does Kalypso? No. 

In a sense, she does love him, but obviously she doesn't love him enough because she won't let him do what he wants to do and only cares about what she wants.

How many people do we know that say they love someone but won't let them do what they want? Yes, these kind of people are controlling and are a big pain in the butt to say the least.

We all know what happens in the end of the story. Hermes tells Kalypso to let Odysseus go, which she does grudgingly.

What's the lesson here? That whenever you try to control something and hold onto it too tightly, you will lose it.

The moral of the story? Don't act like Kalypso! Don't be controlling.

p.s. commented on rebekah dye (penelope's faithfulness)