Imitators of Odysseus

One of the questions that came up in our group was whether Odysseus' character should be emulated. Odysseus is not a typical hero that is made into movies and clearly identify him as a righteous man. Odysseus is flawed and does whatever it takes to get back his kingdom. In a world that is not so black and white, everybody constantly faces what the right thing to do is but sometimes is not as simple as that instead people are constantly at crossroads where nothing seems right. In my opinion, Odysseus should be emulated into some degree because he does not just lay back and let people take care of his problems but he makes the hard choices though they may not be always right. -Emerson


I commented on Don't be a Fence rider

Bummer..

     The entire epic of the Odyssey is centered around nostoi: homecoming. Odysseus, along with his comrades go on this journey, this unexpected adventure, all with their minds set on getting home. But even after being gone from home for ten years of war and ten years of overcoming obstacle after  obstacle, when Odysseus finally returns to Ithaca, he is not greeted as a long lost hero but as a stranger, unwelcome in even his very home. How must he have felt returning home after ten years of fighting off cyclops', hormone-crazy women, and trying not to get killed by the gods, as a traveler? I think that Odysseus' wit and cunning almost got the best of him in this case, because he was so desperate to be recognized, and yet so suspicious of everyone, that he created a situation in which he was not welcomed with as much joy and excitement as he expected. At the same time though, his family and friends were also very suspicious of any news concerning Odysseus because it had been so long, and they had so often been given false accounts. So between Odysseus' disguised arrival, and his family's lack of any hope for his return, his longed for homecoming didn't exactly live up to all of the anticipation.

Let's have tea

What is the difference between “taking time” and “making time”? We briefly talked about this in Tuesday’s class and it really caused me to think. I’m the kind of girl that loves sitting down over tea and coffee and really talking to friends. In the Odyssey, there are many of these moments where people stop what they are doing and everyone settles down to just listen and find out who a person is, his story, and what’s important to his life. I think our culture today has forgotten the value of this “taking time.” We are all about “making time.” Everything is penciled into a calendar and we are rushing from one thing to another, forgetting about the people around us. We have hundreds of friends on Facebook but of those people, how many of them have we spent enough time with to know their story? By story, I do not only mean their name and major and where they are from, but what about their passions and dreams and adventures of life? This is the essence of what makes up a person, and some of the sweetest times I’ve had with friends have been when we were just sitting and talking about life and getting to know each other. So what is the reason for the richness of these times? I think the ancients knew that there was no substitute for sitting down and really talking to each other without time limits and demands, but out of respect and honor for the other person they really listened and understood that one person encompasses so much more than what was seen on the outside. These people understood what it meant to be in ONE place and to be ALL there. Even in the middle of battle they would recognize the person with whom they were fighting, sometimes stopping just to have a conversation about how they ended up there and how they knew each other’s families. We need to re-learn how to create spaces to share these stories. I miss this simplicity. Can we have tea?

P.S. commented on Susan's "Is Homer a woman hater?"

"Is Homer a Woman-Hater!?"

Tuesday in class Dr. Schuler very briefly and I think rather jokingly asked “Does Homer just hate women!?”  Well, does he?  There are certainly some questionable women throughout The Odyssey, and the Iliad as well.  However, I don’t think that Homer created those female characters to prove that all women are terrible, but to show the craftiness of some women.  I also do not think that Homer despised women in any way, because there are some women in his novels who are highly virtuous and great role models.

Obviously, the first woman everyone thinks of when hearing about great women in The Odyssey is Penelope.  She is not only faithful to her husband, but also a great mother, and a very smart and cunning person.  She is probably just as cunning as Odysseus, which makes them a great match for each other.  For example, she tells the suitors that Odysseus told her to choose a man who showered her with gifts, in order to gain some of her wealth and property back from the suitors (even though Odysseus never said that). 

Eurycleia, Odysseus’s wet nurse, is also a very noble woman.  Even thought she is a lower class servant, her character in the story is highly respected and in a way loved by Odysseus.  Before she ever knew that Odysseus was the child she raised returned from battle, she bathed him.  Even thought he was probably smelly, dressed in disgusting clothes, and haggard looking, she bathed him, and then realized that it is her long lost master, finally come home.  After she discovers who Odysseus is, she is so excited, but does not tell a soul, just as her master commands.  She even identifies which of the other servant girls were unfaithful, and tries to convince Penelope of Odysseus’ true identity when the right time finally comes.  Eurycleia was also the one to give Telemachus supplies before he left to go search for news of his father.

Another very important woman throughout The Iliad and The Odyssey is the goddess Athena.  If the Greeks thought so badly about women, they would not worship goddesses, who are obviously women.  Homer, especially in The Odyssey, talks a lot about Athena, and portrays her as a very wise and powerful goddess.  I mean, she is “the patron goddess of human ingenuity,” meaning that she is very knowledgeable and cunning.  She helps Odysseus many times in the Odyssey, and possibly is the main reason why he returns safely home.  She also helps out Telemachus, giving him advice in the very beginning of the epic poem, and then later when she tells him to return home and how to do so.  I believe Homer makes her seems very likeable.

These three women especially show that while possibly, as a whole, women were looked down upon, there were still some who were very important and highly respected.  If Homer hated women, he would not have included females in his story that are so great.   

P.S. I commented on Amanda's blog, "Let's Have Tea"

Love, Susan 

A Stop at Hades

At the beginning of chapter twenty-four, we left Ithaka and travelled with the suitors to Hades. They met Achilles and Agamemnon, who were talking to each other as friends. Where did this come from?? In The Iliad, Achilles spent most of his time being mad at Agamemnon. In this interlude, they seemingly did not remember the conflict over Briseis. Achilles was shockingly sorry that Agamemnon had been killed by Clytemnestra, and Agamemnon described Achilles' funeral with obvious respect. We see a changed Achilles, as foreign to the wrathful warrior as he was when Odysseus spoke to him in chapter eleven. Achilles' new attitude towards Agamemnon backs up the idea that glory and prizes are practically meaningless in Hades.

I commented on Jannah Lyons' post.

Rejoice!

I found the way Homer describes Penelope and Laertes’ reactions to figuring out Odysseus is alive. “Then his/her knees and the heart within him/her went slack.” Basically, their knees buckled and their heart began to pound (since I can only guess this is what happens when your heart goes slack). They are both so overjoyed that Odysseus is home that they can’t move or breathe because they are overwhelmed.

These reunions, especially the one between Laertes and Odysseus, remind me very greatly of the story of the Prodigal Son. Yes the circumstances are quite different, but the emotions behind the reactions are the same. Joy, excitement, incredulousness, and astonishment at the fact the person you thought dead is standing there alive. I believe that if someone I believed to be dead were to appear before me and tell me they were still alive I would probably fall to the ground and start crying. Those emotions would overtake me and I would be unable to form a coherent thought. I believe this is exactly what Penelope and Laertes must have felt when Odysseus proved to them that he really was Odysseus and he had come home at last.

Tantum e tenebris receptum constabit

~Meghan

PS. I commented on Jamie’s “What is ‘ethical’ anyway?”

What is "ethical" anyway?

One night, while watching television with my parents back home, my mom asked my dad if he would shoot a person trying to break into our house.  My dad, in a fairly serious tone, replied, "No, I'd give the shotgun to Jamie. She's a better shot." (He was kidding. I think...)  I'm not a fan of violence, by any means.  However, being raised by a family full of strong-willed, hardworking southern men and women, it was instilled in me from a very young age to never allow anyone to take advantage of me. I think it was partially for this reason that I was cheering for Odysseus while he was taking back his household.

While I'm pretty certain that I could never personally go to the extent Odysseus did, I feel that he was justified in killing the suitors.  I actually like him more as a character because he did.  Was it ethical? I honestly don't have a clue.  Just like I don't know if it is ethical to kill someone who is breaking into your house, or someone who is trying to rape your wife, or someone who is trying to kill you, for that matter.  What I do know is how I would feel if this story were told in modern times.  If there was a man who came back from war to find strange men living in his house, harassing his wife, and threading the life of his son, I couldn't blame him for starting a fight.

Commented on Josh Spell's "the Second Coming of Odysseus"

Socratic Questions

     So, today I have a lot of questions for my blog. There were a few my team didn't get to ask, and I was hoping to give my opinion on the answers, and maybe receive some other opinions. So here it goes

     What is the difference between 'cunning' and 'bewitching'? This is something my team pondered on today. Why are all the good women in the Odyssey, usually, described as cunning but the bad women described as bewitching? What's the difference? Why can't a 'bad' women be cunning too? Is it because most of the women Odysseus meets are goddesses and therefore they must be bewitching?
    For this question I really haven't figured out an answer. Any ideas here?
 
     Second question, before Odysseus revealed himself, why were the suitors terrified that he might be able to string the bow?  Let's think about this. Here is a rather large group of men, who clearly could kill the beggar man even if he did manage to accomplish the task. They had nothing to lose right?  This  man just wanted the chance to string the bow.  Why would that terrify them? Why would they care?  I believe its because they knew this old beggar was quite a strong fellow, after all they witnessed his strength when he pretty much demolished Arnaeus with one blow. Also, it could be that they know what is older is stronger and wiser. This beggar was clearly a strong fighter, maybe just maybe, this man could win the prized Penelope. Any other views into this?

     Third question, can we learn from Odysseus? Let me narrow that question some more. Should we emulate or look up to Odysseus character? Is he a good hero, one that we want our children to be like? Should we imitate him at all?  First of all, to address this question we have to realized that Odysseus is not your typical cookie cutter hero. He's no superman or batman, Odysseus is a real human.  I think Odysseus does offer some valuable qualities, however I'm not sure I'd want to say, "I want to be just like Odysseus when I grow up."  I like that Odysseus has wisdom, but I don't like his high levels of distrust, I like that Odysseus is adventurous, but I hate his carelessness with others' lives.  I think we can definitely learn some life lessons from Odysseus' mistakes, but I'm not sure he would be my role model. What are your thoughts on this?

P.S. commented to jasmne's blog

Penelope.

I absolutely love Penelope! She is everything a woman should want to be, faithful, smart, cunning, and I'm sure she is absolutely gorgeous! When I picture her I think of  Sandra Bullock in Miss Congeniality, very poised but cunning at the same time. Everything she does to prolong the decesion she has to make is well thought and well planned. And the bow test, that was genius. If none of the suitors could string the bow and shoot it though the axes, how could she marry any of them. And then she asks them to bring her gifts instead of destroying her house! Brilliant! We need more women like Penelope in 2012 America! And what is so crazy is that none of the suitors question her, they are so rapped up in thier own pitiful lust that they don't even realize how pathetic they are acting! No true HERO lets a WOMAN drag them around by their tails! Penelope is making a mockery of them and they don't even care, they only want one thing and she knows it. That makes her ten times better than what she already was! I feel like the suitors act like boys in America today, so if we had more Penelope's running around the world would be a much better place! Forget team Edward and Jacob, Team Penelope all the way!

P.S. I commented on Gary Hamners "the Bow Test"

Hope and Loyalty

When Odysseus comes home to Ithica, he has foreknowledge of what awaits him. He has to go home in disguise to protect himself from being killed in his own neighborhood. To top that off, his house has been host to the biggest and longest frat party in Ithica (in the world?). It's been trashed, the suitors are still there, and to make matters worse; some of the servants are now loyal to these hooligans. I mean, who in their right mind with the slightest shread of decency and respectability goes and trashes the king's house and tries to make away with his wife while the king is gone. That's just plain rude and barbaric. Does honor mean nothing to these degenerates? Is it something others must show them but they, themselves, do not return the gesture in any form or fashion. The only shining beacons in this trash heap are Penelope, Telemachos, Eurykleia the nursemaid, the swineherd Eumaios, and the cowherd Philoitios. They are filled with hope and/or loyalty for Oddyseus. The citizens of Ithica have pretty much sided with the revolting suitors, and therefore Odysseus can only trust these few souls (plus Athena) to know his true identity. They have, in the round about way of doing nothing, that Peneolpe should suck it up and marry one of the brats. The suitors were so bad in trashing the house, gorging all the choice food; sharing grudgingly the smallest and worst pieces, and abusing the staff and guests that Telemachos breaks the big rule/code of hostpitality and tells his crewmates that it would be better to stay in the streets than at his house. If honor (kleos) was such a part of the Greek culture, then I would like them to explain to me exactly why this wasn't dealt with when it first began! Tell me, how were they justified in their actions?! And if in fact they weren't, then pray tell why didn't those lily livered elders do something?! It seems more like social politics than true justice to me.

The Honor found in Faithfulness

The concepts of honor and glory in the Odyssey are so different than they are in the Iliad.  In the Iliad, it’s implied that they way to gain glory and honor is through battle; through your fighting skills, sort of a “the bigger and stronger you are, the better” mentality.  In the Odyssey, we see a totally different way of winning glory and recognition for all of time.  Odysseus is gaining glory all through the book through his mental skills rather than brute strength, but what I find really interesting is what the ghost of Achilleus states when talking about Penelope, “How good was proved the heart that is in blameless Penelope, Ikarios’ daughter, and how well she remembered Odysseus, her wedded husband.  Thereby the fame of her virtue shall never die away, but the immortals will make for the people of earth a thing of grace in the song for prudent Penelope.”  That sounds a lot like gaining honor and glory throughout the ages to me… Was it then possible for women to gain glory eternal as well as the men?  Perhaps, as we can see a new theme of honor weaving throughout the Iliad, the theme that states that faithfulness in trials is a sort of honor as well.  From Eumaios to Penelope, we realize this new idea that faithfulness is every bit as honorable as war.  Maybe that’s another reason Odysseus wanted to come home: because his faithfulness to his people, to his homeland.  The keeping of responsibilities is a different kind of honor than that found in battle, but it seems to be even more appreciated by these war-weary men and ghosts of men than the greatest suit of armor stolen from the mightiest of the Trojans.

P.S: I commented on Gary Hamner’s post, “The Bow Test.”

Loyalty

Consequences of disloyalty...

Something I came to recognize towards the end of The Odyssey was the picture of loyalty and disloyalty. At the end of the book we see several characters showing signs of either loyalty or disloyalty; but more importantly then that, we see the consequences of those loyal or disloyal actions.

Odysseus's servants for instance. He has two or three servants that rise up and fight the suitors with him after they realize their master has returned. They are faithful to remain by his side even after 20 years. Although it never really mentions their rewards for such services, I bet that even if they were just considered highly favored by Odysseus, that'd be good enough for them.

The maid servants however, are completely disloyal to Penelope. They sleep around with her suitors, which was a big deal, even though Penelope didn't really care about the suitors. If you were a servant, you were suppose to do whatever your master required and asked of you. By saying in the book that the maids were 'sneaking out and sleeping with the suitors in the night' you can come to the conclusion that it wasn't a request of them from Penelope.

The consequences for disloyalty in The Odyssey are pretty major. The punishment for disloyalty is death. There's pretty much no way around that.
As I think about this, I can't help but to compare it to our world today. When someone is disloyal to a spouse, or a friend, they divorce them, they stop speaking to them, then they move on. With little thought to how the other person feels. The consequences for having no integrity is basically nothing anymore. I can't help but think what our world would look like today if we had the desire to be more loyal to those we cared about and loved.

P.s. I commented on Mallory Searcy's post "Time"

The Second Coming of Odysseus

Odysseus has been on a long journey, and he comes back to find his house overrun with suiters. Once a noble dwelling place, now it is a den of thieves. In order to reclaim his house, he disguises himself as an old man until his preparations for revenge are complete. At the right time, he reveals himself to the men and says,

You dogs! You never imagined I'd return from Troy— so cocksure that you bled my house to death, ravished my serving-women— wooed my wife behind my back while I was still alive! No fear of the gods who rule the skies up there, no fear that men's revenge might arrive someday— now all your necks are in the noose— your doom is sealed!

The suitors plead for mercy but receive none. The time for mercy is past; now is the time for judgment. With that, he unleashes a swarm of arrows to slaughter the suitors— the wrath of Odysseus. This imagery was also used by the Psalmist to describe the boding wrath of God.

God is a righteous judge, and a God who feels indignation every day. If a man does not repent, God will whet his sword; he has bent and readied his bow; he has prepared for him his deadly weapons, making his arrows fiery shafts. (Psalm 7)*

Christ too has been on a long journey, and at his second coming, he will destroy all his enemies, those faithless and unrepentant who ransacked his house and abused his bride. No longer will he disguise himself as the impoverished Jewish carpenter; instead he will come from the right hand of the Father to judge the living and the dead. There will be no more mercy; only judgment.

Then I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse! The one sitting on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he judges and makes war... From his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron. He will tread the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty. On his robe and on his thigh he has a name written, King of kings and Lord of lords. (Revelation 19)

EDIT: Commented on Gary Hamner's "Bow Test." 
________________________

* Jonathan Edwards famously used this verse's imagery in Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God. "The bow of God's wrath is bent, and the arrow made ready on the string, and justice bends the arrow at your heart, and strains the bow, and it is nothing but the mere pleasure of God, and that of an angry God, without any promise or obligation at all, that keeps the arrow one moment from being drunk with your blood."

The Bow Test

     During class today my group came up with a question that we never addressed and that question is, Why did Penelope pick the bow test as a means of picking a husband? And then why could only Odysseus string it? We thought Penelope picked the bow test because if Penelope had to pick one of the suitors for a husband we assume she would want one as similar to Odysseus as she could get, and it was said that  only Odysseus could string the bow therefore whoever strung it would then be equal to Odysseus. Now we know that none of the suitors were able to string the bow and that the only other person that came close to stringing it was Telemochas , so why was Odysseus the only one that could wield the bow? We figured that it couldn't be just because he was stronger than everybody because Telemochas was not stronger than the suitors and he came close, so was it technique? Or was it something else? I think Odysseus was the only person that could string the bow, not just because he had a better technique or because he was stronger, but because he was the only one qualified to string it. Just like in the Avengers where Thor is the only person who can wield his hammer, other than Captain America, not because he is stronger but because he is the only one worthy. I think to string Odysseus' bow you have to not be strong, but have the qualities that Odysseus had, qualities like honor, bravery, and respect, all of which are things that the suitors did not have. So to put it just a little clearer, the only people who could wield the bow would have to be true Odyssean heroes.

Odysseus and Penelope

After finishing The Odyssey I can officially say that Odysseus and Penelope are probably one of my  favorite couples in literature.  They have such a bond that only they can comprehend, which Penelope points out in Book twenty-three. 

"...But if he truly is Odysseus, and he has come home, then we shall find other ways, and better, to recognize each other, for we have signs that we know of between the two of us only, but they are secret from others." 

When Telemachos and Eurklyeia scold Penelope for not believing that it is actually Odysseus right on the spot, all Odysseus does is smile because he knows his wife.  An example of this is when Penelope reveals in thought that it is hard for her to figure out if it is Odysseus because of the foul clothes that he wears.  Shortly after Odysseus is telling Telemachos to let his mother examine him because it is hard for her to picture him as her husband with him being in dirty foul clothing.  It just blows my mind how strong of a bond they still have and it's been twenty years since they last saw or spoke to each other.  

What better way is there to figure out if it is crafty Odysseus than by tricking him into revealing himself, which only Penelope is able to accomplish?  This just declares that Penelope and Odysseus were made for each other!  Shortly after, the long awaited embrace occurs and Homer brilliantly compares it to a man "escaping evil" by finally meeting shore after being beaten by the waves of Poseidon.  Homers pure poetry in this comparison of their embrace simply made my heart melt.  It was also an embrace that lasted so long that even Athena delayed dawn for them! This is a couple that even the gods love, a couple that I love, and a couple that truly stood the test of time!



p.s. commented on Lauren Tidwell's The Doubting Achaians

TIme

Usually I end up posting on the thing we discussed in class that I can't stop thinking about, and this week  it has been the concept of Time. Coupled with these C. S. Lewis lines that I keep reading to everyone:

It is well that there are palaces of peace,

and discipline and dreaming and desire

Lest we forget our heritage and cease

The Spirit's work; to hunger and aspire. 

As I finished the Odyssey I was struck again and again with their sense of order and place. Odysseus had absolutely no tolerance for any of the suitors, and neither did Achilles for the Trojans, and yet in other times both men are seen as gracious, forgiving and loving. For them, this is not a double standard but an issue of timing. 

Same thing with how many women Odysseus slept with. I mean that night with Penelope in the last chapter- that's different. In a sense, that is the real thing while all the other goddesses were just a means to that end. In our culture we would call that definite chauvinism, and maybe it is, but I am beginning to understand how it works for the story. As much as I would like to argue that sex is sex, I do understand how it's totally different for him to be with Penelope than with Circe.  

And of course, what we discussed in class, the picture of two men telling their stories late into the night while the rest of the world sleeps. We, as people, have to be intentional about these times of intentional clock stopping. That is, I think, the true essence of honors. That is why the best students will tell you there are times to skip your homework for conversation, for relationship. Yesterday I didn't get some homework done because I sat and talked to my family for an hour and a half, and I know without a doubt that I made the right decision. And also, that I was influenced by Odysseus. 

I really do think there is a season for everything, a time and place for war and for peace. The Greeks valued Temperance, which is just this, the moderation of all things.

I think Odysseus would like what C. S. Lewis had to say about the 'Palaces of Peace", he just might also add 'it is well that there are windstorms of war.'

The Doubting Achaians

Odysseus faces numerous challenges on his homeward journey including shipwrecks, six-headed monsters, a Cyclops, and a goddess, but one challenge stands above the rest: doubt. After Odysseus and his men face these many dangers, Odysseus is the only one to make it back to his home, Ithaka. When he arrives no one knows who he is because of his change in appearance. Athene made him look like an old, ragged vagabond and he was treated as such by most of the Achaians. Since Odysseus looks so unlike himself no one believes him when he reveals his true identity. Each time he tells someone who he really is they doubt him. They cannot believe that after twenty years Odysseus has returned. Even though they have been praying to the gods that he would return the people cannot believe this stranger. They doubt the very man they have been longing to see.

When Odysseus reveals himself to his father Laertes, he receives the same reaction. Laertes says, "If in truth you are Odysseus, my son, who have come back here, give me some unmistakable sign, so that I can believe you" (lines 328-90). So Odysseus show his father the scar proving his claim. After Laertes sees his son's scar he immediately embraces him and begins crying and rejoicing.

This reminds me of Thomas. After Jesus was resurrected he went to see his disciples and Thomas doubted that Jesus was who he said he was. To  make Thomas believe him, Jesus showed Thomas his scars.

When the true kings reveals his scars, no room for doubt remains.

 No more doubting Thomas. No more doubting Achaians.

P.S. I posted on Emily Laforce's blog.

Don't be a fence rider

In Book 18, a character that greatly interested me was Amphinomus. He's one of those sympathetic villians who chose the wrong side to fight on and now he's just stuck there and you're left wondering if he'll switch to the good side or not.

Yes, Amphinomus is a part of the gaggle of suitors mooching off Odysseus' household and should be bopped in the head for his rudeness.

However, he does display some compassion when he toasts Odysseus for soundly beating Arnaeus and gives Odysseus food.

But even after Odysseus warns Amphinomus of the master's imminent return, he stays. He can't make up his mind.

There's nothing worse than a person who can't decide which side they'll to fight on. You're either for something or against it, and indecisive people make this whole world turn a little slower. It's irritating.

Ultimately, Athena decides that Amphinomus will have an untimely death. Why? Because he doesn't know what he's for or against. I know this is only concerning Penelope and Odysseus' household, but I'm going to take this whole situation a little deeper.

When it all comes down to it, you should know your stance on every hot topic, especially concerning your faith and convictions. A man without conviction is a man without power, and ultimately, he'll stand aside and let evil happen.

(P.S. Commented on Emerson Larios' There is Nothing Like Home)