"If it wasn't this, it'd be something else."

In The Iliad Achilles is faced with a great decision: live a short and glorious life and be remembered forever, or return home as a simple farmer and die of old age. Truly, this is no fair question--for once a question like this is posed it can never be forgotten. Either option will ultimately end in the unanswerable question 'what if...' One sees through Homer's writing this emphasis on fate; it is a force within itself that cannot be stopped, even by the gods. Perhaps this was a common view in the day. Maybe it was simply Homer's view. Regardless, it is interesting to remember that knowing one's fate or even being able to choose one's fate is the source of much turmoil. Once Achilles is given the opportunity to decide the outcome of his life, the reader knows that he will never be happy. Though his fame is apparent throughout the world of The Odyssey, he is miserable in the underworld. Perhaps this view could give Odysseus some comfort in his own outcome, for though his fate has been a rough course, it is a force unstoppable. He had no other options. There is a sort of solace in not having responsibility. Odysseus is free to make the most out of what he has been dealt and will never have to wonder after another theoretical life, as Achilles will do forever in Hades. If Odysseus didn't have the same horrible fate, he wouldn't be the same hero.

Irony of Hades

All of Odysseus' stories are fairly repetitive.  He shows up on an island, he goes looking for civilization, and  someone gets killed, drugged, poisoned,etc.  The only person that seems to escape is always Odysseus.  However, where is the one place that no one ends up in danger or comes close to dying? The house of Hades!

When traveling to the land of the dead and back not a single person on the ship is killed.  Well, you can point out the obvious that Hades' is full of ghosts or "flittering shadows." How can they kill Odysseus or any of his companions? Also, Odysseus was there just to talk to Teiresias, even though he did get an ear-full from numerous of the ghosts including his mother, Agamemnon, and even Achilles.  Who would dare try and be reckless in the land of the dead?  Definitely not Odysseus.  I just find this situation so ironic that the one place full of death, where there is no civilization, and the one place Odysseus seemed to fear the most (considering he started weeping as soon as Circe told him that is where he had to go) is the one place that no one was killed. Maybe if Odysseus had a little more fear in him and questioned how he would actually be able to get places like he did when going to Hades' home he may have been able to save some of his companions. 

p.s. commented on TinsleyG's Odysseus the devious wretch...Just like the gods?... 

The curse of the gods

When Odysseus goes anywhere, it seems that bad luck (Eris?) follows him. Even before he was cursed by Polyphemous the cyclops, it seemed that trouble was his faithful companion. Like when he went to the land of the Lotus eaters. What are the odds that he would land on an island that once you eat the lotus the partaker will forget about the one thing that kept the men going, home! Also, everywhere he goes he is either reminded or witnesses firsthand the curse that follows him. He may be cunning and sometimes reckless, but who in their right mind wants to know that they have been cursed. I respect him for not sinking into depression, though it seems like sometimes he is very near the edge. The curse is always mentioned at the point when Oddyseus is emotionally weak such as: when thay see Ithaica and are swept back to the Aiolos' house, when they are in Hades seeing fallen loved ones and friends, and when Alkinoos sends him in a Phaiakian ship that turns to stone in the middle of the ocean and sinks to the depths. If any of us had that much resolve, where would the world be today?

fleeting glory

Can kleos die? This concept of glory/honor intrigues me. It was obviously such a large part of Greek culture… but did kleos die when a person did? Obviously they had stories that carried on their name, but the stories only captured a mere glimpse of that glory. It was in a person’s way of walking and how people responded to them and their strength in battle that were the indicators of kleos. People could make up stories, but everyone took notice when Achilles walked into the room. So what happened when he died? When Oysseus visits Achilles in Hades, Achilles makes the puzzling statement that “I would rather follow the plow as thrall to another man, one with no land allotted him and not much to live on, than be a king over all the perished dead” (Book 11, lines 490-1). This does not match up with the Achilles of The Iliad. He would never want to be subject or slave to another. But maybe Achilles realizes that death levels the playing field. Regardless of how much glory they had in life, once they were dead it no longer mattered. They are all stuck in Hades with no way out and no way to “gain glory.” There are no wars to fight or obstacles to overcome… there is simply… nothing. Perhaps being a farmer is better than Hades for Achilles because at least if he’s alive he has potential to become more and gain glory rather than the nothingness of death. All the glory he attained in his life does him no good in death because it brings him no power. Meanwhile, the only remnants of kleos he left in the land of the living are the songs and stories of his bravery …and his son. I think that is why it’s significant that Achilles so eagerly asked about his son- through the life of his son the name of Achilles would live on, as would the kleos. Odysseus told of the fame of Neoptolemos and Achilles left happy because his son had fame and favor. Even in the underworld this theme of glory is so important.

Do we see remnants of that in our own culture? Kleos and having glory in death… Legacy, maybe? Everyone wants to be remembered for something, but why is it so important if it’s something fleeting that will end when death comes? Maybe that’s why so many are searching for something meaningful to live and die for… and the answer is before us- Jesus. Only His glory lasts forever, so by contributing to that you are living and working for something that will never fade, falter, or die out. I wonder…is there another Greek word for kleos that is bigger than ourselves?

p.s. commented on Tinsley's "Odysseus the devious wretch...just like the gods?"

Odysseus the devious wretch... Just like the gods??

I love the moment where Athena reveals herself to Odysseus by saying,

 “It would be a sharp one, and a stealthy one, who would ever get past you in any conniving; even if it were a god against you.  You wretch, so devious, never weary of tricks, then you would not even in your own country give over your ways of deceiving and your thievish tales.  They are near to you in your very nature.  But come, let us talk no more of this, for you and I both know sharp practice, since you are far the best of all mortal men for counsels and stories, and I among all the divinities am famous for wit and sharpness…” 

The laughing way that she addresses him is not only funny, but thought provoking.  When Athena makes this comparison of herself and Odysseus, it shows us how similar they really both are.  After all, they were each trying to fool the other into believing they were not who they seemed, and it always is that way with Odysseus and Athena.  After all, they both love to be “Nobody.”  This passage really highlights the differences in the Iliad and the Odyssey, and what exactly makes up a hero who is pleasing to the gods.  There aren’t many people in the world more strikingly different than Achilleus and Odysseus, yet they are both considered great Greek heroes of great honor.  They both had such different paths to heroism, and I don’t particularly like either path.  After all, is it really any better to be known as a person so devious that you can’t trust anything they say, because they’re always working for their own advantage than to be known as a mighty, fearsome, unforgiving, anger-driven warrior?  Both of these concepts of heroism are interesting, as they are also reflections on the gods of Greece.  After all, both of these are great qualities to the gods.  Perhaps that’s why these men are considered heroes, they are as close to the vision of the Greek gods as they can get without attaining immortality. 

P.S. I commented on emilylaforce "Can you say controlling?"

To be immortal...or not to be?

We talked so much in class of Odysseus's decision to become immortal and stay with Kalypso or remain mortal, and begin to make the long journey home. I for one was extremely glad he choose going home. I think that tells a lot about his character! While reading 'The Iliad' and 'The Odyssey' it has been very interesting to me to see how much people valued glory, immortality, honor and power. It makes sense to some degree but thinking about all the other characters in these books, I think if it had been a different character, they may have chosen a life of ease, very quickly. It was refreshing to me to see Odysseus putting value on home and family. While I can see which choice would've been easiest, I'm glad Odysseus chose the harder route. What is easiest, isn't always good.

P.s. I commented on Michelle Nellsch's 'Man of Mystery'

Can you say controlling???

The relationship between Odysseus and Kalypso is a little weird to say the least.

At the beginning of book 5, we find Odysseus crying his eyes out on Kalypso's island and her just chilling out like nothing's wrong. What is the backstory behind this?

First off, Kalypso does a good deed and rescues Odysseus from drowning. However, she then makes Odysseus into her sex slave and doesn't let him go home. She keeps trying to prevent him from going home by offering to make him into a god so that he can be like her.

If you really loved someone, wouldn't you want to try to make them feel better? 

Does Kalypso? No. 

In a sense, she does love him, but obviously she doesn't love him enough because she won't let him do what he wants to do and only cares about what she wants.

How many people do we know that say they love someone but won't let them do what they want? Yes, these kind of people are controlling and are a big pain in the butt to say the least.

We all know what happens in the end of the story. Hermes tells Kalypso to let Odysseus go, which she does grudgingly.

What's the lesson here? That whenever you try to control something and hold onto it too tightly, you will lose it.

The moral of the story? Don't act like Kalypso! Don't be controlling.

p.s. commented on rebekah dye (penelope's faithfulness)